THE CHRISTIAN TRUTH ABOUT MENTAL HEALTH ๐ง ๐ก๏ธ | Neuroscience & Faith | Ft. Rini Jacob
Tonight's Episode
Is mental illness a spiritual failure? Why do so many Christians struggle in silence with depression and anxiety?In this special studio interview, John Giftah sits down with clinical psychologist Rini Jacob (Host of The Hope Frequency Podcast) to tear down the taboo surrounding mental health in the church.
Together, they explore the intersection of psychology and scripture, the neuroscience of depression, and why seeking therapy is an act of spiritual courage, not a lack of faith.
In this episode, you will learn: โ The biological reality of mental illness (It's not just "in your head") โ Why biblical heroes like Elijah and David struggled with their minds โ Practical tools for emotional regulation and self-compassion โ How the Church and mental health professionals can work together
Connect with Rini Jacob:
The Hope Frequency Podcast - https://www.youtube.com/@TheHopeFrequencyPodcast
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/the_hope_frequency_podcast?igsh=anAzNjM5MzZrNG42 Email: [email protected]
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This episode is part of Fuel for the Soul with John Giftah, a leading Christian podcast featuring Christian sermons, Christian motivational messages, Christian inspirational sermons, and Christian interviews to help you grow in faith, purpose, and everyday life.
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Speaker 1: Do you ever look around and think, Wow, the world
Speaker 1: is a crazy place and it just seems to get
Speaker 1: crazier and crazier. Ease your mind and take a break.
Speaker 1: This is Fuel for the Soul with John Gifta. We're
Speaker 1: a hub for inspirational Christian sermons, practical keys for Christian living,
Speaker 1: in Christian discussions and interviews. You'll be inspired to live
Speaker 1: the life that you were created for. Your host is
Speaker 1: a top ranking podcaster, best selling author, world record holder,
Speaker 1: aerospace engineer, life coach, evangelist and founder of John Gifta International.
Speaker 1: Welcome to Fuel for the Soul with John Gifta.
Speaker 2: Hello everyone, Welcome to this edition of the Fuel for
Speaker 2: the Soul with John Gifta podcast. I'm so glad that
Speaker 2: you're joined in for this special edition where I have
Speaker 2: a guest, Renny Jacob. She's a clinical psychologist as well
Speaker 2: as the host of the podcasts. I'm glad I was
Speaker 2: able to get that through, So thank you so much
Speaker 2: for joining and really, of.
Speaker 3: Course I'm so glad to be here.
Speaker 2: Yeah. In fact, before we get started, I just wanted
Speaker 2: to give this shout out that I started recording the
Speaker 2: podcast at this studio the magnificant studio, and you were
Speaker 2: the one who actually introduced me to the studio, and
Speaker 2: I'm glad that you're the first guest on the part
Speaker 2: here at the studio, So pray Scout for that. So
Speaker 2: thank you so much for that heart, and thank you
Speaker 2: for being here. So, like I said, that, you're in
Speaker 2: this psychology space as well as being practicing therapy with
Speaker 2: faith based tools and all of these things. So what
Speaker 2: led you to this path?
Speaker 3: That's such an interesting question.
Speaker 4: So for about five issues, I was just doing therapy
Speaker 4: in the secular way. Whatever my textbooks taught me, whatever
Speaker 4: my course and degree taught me, is what I was doing.
Speaker 4: And at some point I felt like there was some
Speaker 4: like the clients would make progress up to a point
Speaker 4: and suddenly they would just get stuck. And I just
Speaker 4: felt the Holy Spirit saying like why don't you pray
Speaker 4: for them? Or why don't you talk about me? And
Speaker 4: it just felt like it only made sense for therapy
Speaker 4: to go forward if I invited God into the space.
Speaker 4: And so God really led me into faith based therapy.
Speaker 4: In fact, I've gone for therapy myself, and one of
Speaker 4: my early exposures to faith based therapy was through my
Speaker 4: own therapist who was a Christian and she integrated faith
Speaker 4: in therapy and so yeah, that's really where.
Speaker 3: It got started.
Speaker 2: Oo, we really need more people talking about this. I think.
Speaker 2: In fact, guys, if you're not checked this out, I
Speaker 2: got the chance to interview Recruity Angelina on the similar
Speaker 2: topic about mental health. You can check that out. That
Speaker 2: was a couple of years back. But I think that
Speaker 2: we need to keep talking about these things. And you
Speaker 2: have that unique thing bringing to the table. And also,
Speaker 2: like you said, you know you were doing therapy and
Speaker 2: all of these things, but you were like, why not
Speaker 2: integrate faith into it because that's where the meaning comes right, Like,
Speaker 2: for example, my heart is if you see one of
Speaker 2: my debut books is on finding your purpose and male
Speaker 2: a purpose. And I keep telling people that, you know,
Speaker 2: everyone has a unique calling. And when we talk about
Speaker 2: calling a purpose, we immediately think you have to become
Speaker 2: a preacher or a worship leader. Whether I believe that
Speaker 2: God has called us to be in that unique space.
Speaker 2: You know, you are into counseling, you're into therapy, and
Speaker 2: you're able to use that to help people in the
Speaker 2: time of need. Now, for example, for me, I serve
Speaker 2: as you can obvious leave Scooby Doo and people talk
Speaker 2: about Scooby Doo is a fun way, But I integrate
Speaker 2: Scooby Doo with faith to bring out messages in a
Speaker 2: unique way. No one has heard of a Scooby pastor.
Speaker 3: It's me.
Speaker 2: You know, it's a very unique thing. So I really
Speaker 2: challenge you guys that, you know, if you're thinking, like
Speaker 2: what you're doing makes no sense, ask the Lord. Like
Speaker 2: Lenny was able to integrate what she was passionate to
Speaker 2: connect with faith and help people bless the kingdom. So
Speaker 2: like the way I'm using Scooby Doo in this unique way,
Speaker 2: why not each of us, you know, start our own
Speaker 2: things that God has called us. You know, that's the
Speaker 2: place I want to get started. And I really challenge
Speaker 2: you guys to have this attitude of you know, being
Speaker 2: like a sponge to receive whatever the Lord wants to give,
Speaker 2: because sometimes we think like, oh, mental health, that's not
Speaker 2: for me, because you know, there's such a big taboo
Speaker 2: around this whole aspect of mental health, and I think
Speaker 2: we really need to talk about it. So to get started,
Speaker 2: tell us a little bit about what is this whole
Speaker 2: idea about mental health? Because sometimes people say, well, this
Speaker 2: person has mental health. Everybody has mental health. So it's
Speaker 2: more to do with you know, how you allow it
Speaker 2: to function. So give us a little bit of understanding
Speaker 2: on that.
Speaker 3: For sure.
Speaker 4: Mental well being is just one part of our houristic wellness. Right,
Speaker 4: So there's so much that we know about our physical wealth,
Speaker 4: maybe a little bit that we know about our spiritual Yeah,
Speaker 4: there's a lot that we know about our spiritual well being.
Speaker 4: There's a lot that we know about our physical well being,
Speaker 4: but there's very little that people want to acknowledge about
Speaker 4: emotional and mental well being.
Speaker 3: Right. God created our brains.
Speaker 4: God created and gave us all the different organs in
Speaker 4: our body, and we value and respect and honor and
Speaker 4: care for every other part of the body.
Speaker 3: But when it comes to do with anything to do
Speaker 3: with the mind, there is.
Speaker 4: Just so much stigma because it's looked at through the
Speaker 4: lens of spiritual failure lack of faith, and so anything
Speaker 4: to do with mental illness is immediately like, no, God
Speaker 4: is not in that picture, and that's why you're struggling.
Speaker 2: And so yeah, that's so needed. We need to talk
Speaker 2: about it, like what is what do you think is
Speaker 2: God's heart behind this? Because I feel that you know,
Speaker 2: God created us, like the scripture says, right, like love
Speaker 2: the Lord with all your heart, mind, and soul. It's
Speaker 2: not just love the heart with your heart. You know,
Speaker 2: like there's a place for the mind, because if you're
Speaker 2: struggling physically, you would say, oh, I'm so sorry for you,
Speaker 2: let me pray for you, take care of your health.
Speaker 2: But if somebody is struggling mentally, they just say, it's
Speaker 2: in your mind, get out of it. So what do
Speaker 2: you for that?
Speaker 4: Yeah, therapy is never a replacement for God. And therapy
Speaker 4: is never a replacement for the Holy Spirit and everything
Speaker 4: that God can do in and throw us. But it
Speaker 4: really therapy reflects God's heart for wholeness, that he wants
Speaker 4: us to become whole. He wants us to experience a
Speaker 4: life of joy and freedom, right, and therapy is one
Speaker 4: of those incredible tools and one of those spaces where
Speaker 4: we can grow and become healthier in our minds. And
Speaker 4: so that really is one point, you know, it reflects
Speaker 4: God's heart for wholeness.
Speaker 3: And the second thing.
Speaker 4: Is God has very specifically instructed us. I think it's
Speaker 4: in Galatians where it says carry each other's burdens, right,
Speaker 4: and God invites us to carry each other's burdens and
Speaker 4: do this journey together. And so what is stopping us
Speaker 4: from seeking help and seeking counsel, which we have also
Speaker 4: seen with a lot of biblical characters. Moses sought counsel,
Speaker 4: David had a whole group of profits and musicians to
Speaker 4: seek counsel from. Everybody sought counsel. And yet when we
Speaker 4: do it in this mode, it is somehow looked at differently.
Speaker 4: But yeah, I think God's heart is very much for
Speaker 4: mental health.
Speaker 3: And I think God's heart.
Speaker 4: For mental health in India really so much because of
Speaker 4: the misinformation and the lack of awareness as well and
Speaker 4: the stigma attached. I think there are so many people
Speaker 4: struggling with depression, so many suicides happening among Christians right
Speaker 4: in the church, that we're just not finding the words
Speaker 4: to address and approach.
Speaker 3: And I think it's time that we started doing that.
Speaker 2: So true, so true. First of all, when he was
Speaker 2: telling about the importance of therapy, say, some people may say, like,
Speaker 2: why do I need therapy when I have God? You
Speaker 2: know what I mean? Like, I was reminded of how
Speaker 2: in Second King chapter twenty, when Hesekiah was about to be.
Speaker 2: I mean, like he was in the dead bed then
Speaker 2: he was going to die. Prophet Isaiah comes and gives
Speaker 2: him a word saying, listen, the Lord is saying you're
Speaker 2: going to live for fifteen more years, so basically saying
Speaker 2: that you're going to be healed. And then he gives
Speaker 2: an instruction to take these big leaves and put it
Speaker 2: on his boil and then he'll be healed. So the
Speaker 2: question comes that God heal him or was it the boil?
Speaker 2: I mean, was it the fig leaves? You know what
Speaker 2: I mean? So what is it? It's like God is
Speaker 2: the ultimate healer, but God uses means like it could
Speaker 2: be this fig in this case. So on a similar note,
Speaker 2: I believe like even for our mental wholeness, God is
Speaker 2: open or willing for us to use everything at our disposal.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 2: It can be therapy, it can be counseling, it can
Speaker 2: be seeking some advice, it can be taking some steps.
Speaker 2: And I think people need to be in that position
Speaker 2: of being open. Like I said, we need to be
Speaker 2: like respond saying, you know what if this is something
Speaker 2: that I always have this outlook of life that I
Speaker 2: can always be wrong, that's how you are willing to
Speaker 2: be open to receive a new advice, a new suggestion.
Speaker 2: And I really pray that if you're someone who's thinking,
Speaker 2: because a lot of Christians have this idea, if you're
Speaker 2: a Christian, you can't be depressed. If you're a true
Speaker 2: believer in Christ, you're led by the spirit of God,
Speaker 2: you cannot have panic attacks. But to be honest, I've
Speaker 2: been in ministry for fourteen years and I openly share
Speaker 2: about these things that I've struggled. Like you said about
Speaker 2: suicide and depressions, like you know, I think Bangalore in India,
Speaker 2: for instance, is known as the suicide capital of the country.
Speaker 2: So with saying that, you know, those people were just
Speaker 2: stupid or foolish, Like I'm someone who has experienced that firsthand.
Speaker 2: You know what I mean. I'm a minister of God,
Speaker 2: I'm praying, I'm seeking the Lord. I love the Lord.
Speaker 2: But there are times right after having an encounter with
Speaker 2: a lot and I'm there's such a strong spirit saying
Speaker 2: jump in front of this vehicle or you know, I've
Speaker 2: experienced that. So what I'm trying to tell people is
Speaker 2: that guys, you know, mental health and mental awareness is
Speaker 2: something we need to be open about. You know, running
Speaker 2: away from it and not talking about it or ignoring it,
Speaker 2: it's not going to drive it away. It's only going
Speaker 2: to lead to more people suffering. And sometimes we think that,
Speaker 2: you know, if you're a believer, you should not and
Speaker 2: when you are doing that, what is happening is you're
Speaker 2: driving people away, those who are in actual pain. So
Speaker 2: what is your take on how we can deal to
Speaker 2: this taboo about Christian especially in the Christian world, and
Speaker 2: circle about this aspect of mental health to tell people
Speaker 2: that if somebody is going through something, it's okay. You know,
Speaker 2: you're not the hardware, not like it's not that God
Speaker 2: has forgotten you, or it's not because you're in the
Speaker 2: wrong track. Or if somebody is watching saying they are
Speaker 2: not able to understand why this other believer is saying
Speaker 2: that they're struggling from mental health, how do we tackle
Speaker 2: the taboo aspect of it.
Speaker 4: I think the approach really needs to change here because
Speaker 4: we often look at therapy as the last resort, Right,
Speaker 4: I tried everything and then I'm just gonna try this
Speaker 4: one last thing because nothing else is working. And so
Speaker 4: very often it is seen as, oh, you don't have
Speaker 4: enough faith to keep praying. Is that why you're going
Speaker 4: to therapy, right, And so often therapy is seen going
Speaker 4: to therapy is.
Speaker 3: Seen as a lack of faith.
Speaker 4: For actually, it is the one of the best opportunities
Speaker 4: to depend on God because it is you seeking counsel
Speaker 4: and it is you showing up with courage, you know,
Speaker 4: in the presence of a professional and saying hey, let's
Speaker 4: work on this together, and trusting in the therapy process
Speaker 4: because God is the one in the midst of it
Speaker 4: is spiritual reliance, right, it is.
Speaker 3: Not spiritual failure. And so I think that's.
Speaker 4: The shift that needs to happen because in faith based therapy,
Speaker 4: God is the center. Everything flows from the truth that
Speaker 4: Jesus is our healer and the Holy Spirit is on
Speaker 4: the move, and it is just even the therapist is
Speaker 4: a tool.
Speaker 3: Yes, it is not that the therapist.
Speaker 4: There is if at any point I go into a
Speaker 4: session relying on my own abilities, God, you know, so
Speaker 4: that really, yeah, that's so true.
Speaker 2: I remember there was something that I was dealing with
Speaker 2: for over eight years and I was praying about it
Speaker 2: and I was like, no, I need to like I
Speaker 2: fasted or whatever you talk about like decree declare everything
Speaker 2: okay for eight years, but it was constantly affecting me
Speaker 2: still about maybe two weeks ago when I was just
Speaker 2: praying in the spirit and I said, Holy Spirit, how
Speaker 2: do I deal with this? And then he gave me.
Speaker 2: Like you said about therapy is you know, taking counsel,
Speaker 2: that's one side of it, but there's also the other
Speaker 2: side where you follow tools, right like for example. So
Speaker 2: what happened was this was a unique tool that God
Speaker 2: gave me, Like why didn't you whatever these thoughts that
Speaker 2: are affecting you, why don't you convert that in the
Speaker 2: form of a story and release it out, you know,
Speaker 2: like express yourself. I started working on it, like I
Speaker 2: think for two days. It was so messy. My mine
Speaker 2: was like completely in a very bad shape because I
Speaker 2: was dealing with these things. I think that's just when
Speaker 2: I actually missed out reaching back to you, because I
Speaker 2: was actually in my own sense of doing therapy for myself.
Speaker 2: But you won't believe after those two days of working
Speaker 2: on it and just it was a unique idea that
Speaker 2: the Lord led me through after that, like I'm completely
Speaker 2: free in that area, you know what I mean? Like
Speaker 2: what eight years of fasting and praying did not help.
Speaker 2: When I followed what the Holy Spirit led me to
Speaker 2: do as a tool, in just two days, I was
Speaker 2: able to see a difference, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: So guys, that's what I'm trying to say. I'm not
Speaker 2: saying that we are replacing God, you know, and we
Speaker 2: are trying to say that I put my focus on
Speaker 2: the tool. But what we are saying is we allow
Speaker 2: God to leave just through the tools that He wants
Speaker 2: us to use.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: You know, like even when you say preaching the gospel, right,
Speaker 2: you're using this tool of the places that people are
Speaker 2: having hurt to use that to be the light in
Speaker 2: the darkness, right, Like we need to allow that, and
Speaker 2: we needed to have that sense of maturity to understand
Speaker 2: how God leads. Yes, And when you think about this,
Speaker 2: sometimes people think click, oh my gosh, you know, like
Speaker 2: there's something wrong with me when I'm facing this, But
Speaker 2: I do see the scripture. There were those in the
Speaker 2: scripture who dealt with this. The classic example is Eleija, right, yes,
Speaker 2: Elecha in First King stept in nineteen he had a
Speaker 2: tremendous sense of depression. There was a time when the
Speaker 2: apostle Paul said in First Corinthians or Second Corinthians. He
Speaker 2: said things were so bad I wanted to die. It
Speaker 2: was like suicidal depression. Or we talk about even Jonah,
Speaker 2: he was like so depressed and he was like I
Speaker 2: don't want to live anymore. And we also talk about
Speaker 2: Joe b. Think of it as like, look, job was
Speaker 2: so good he said, blessed be the name of the Lord.
Speaker 2: But that doesn't have to do Yeah, but the same
Speaker 2: job went to a point of pain where he said,
Speaker 2: curse by the day I was born. Yes, like he
Speaker 2: went through that. So the characters in the Word of
Speaker 2: God also went through what we went through or we
Speaker 2: are going through. It's just that they sought the Law's
Speaker 2: leading and help and healing through that process, and we
Speaker 2: need to do the same. So what's your take on that.
Speaker 4: I think it's so interesting to see God's heart for
Speaker 4: those who are struggling mentally right when they were emotionally
Speaker 4: in the depths of the depths. God did not judge them,
Speaker 4: God did not shun them. They were not disqualified from
Speaker 4: their colleague. Yes, God loved them. God cared for them.
Speaker 4: God told them to rest right. God met them in
Speaker 4: their humanness right. And so this idea of if you're
Speaker 4: struggling with depressive thoughts, or if you're feeling if you're
Speaker 4: feeling very anxious, it's because there is something wrong in
Speaker 4: your spiritual life, or that you're not spiritually strong, or
Speaker 4: you're not strong as a human being. They're all so incorrect, right,
Speaker 4: because to recognize or to assume that God does not
Speaker 4: love me, or there is something wrong in my relationship
Speaker 4: with him and that's why I'm struggling is really such
Speaker 4: a misconception around mental illness. Right. What really blows me
Speaker 4: away is God's heart for each of those characters.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 4: God literally told Elijah he put him to sleep, and
Speaker 4: then he gave him food, and he gave him water,
Speaker 4: and he said, just rest. Even with Joe Job's friends
Speaker 4: came to him and said, I mean, I think they
Speaker 4: were talking amongst themselves or I'm not too sure. They said, yeah,
Speaker 4: I'm sure he's going through all of this because of sin. Right.
Speaker 4: And even if you see in the Book of John,
Speaker 4: the disciples that meet the blind man, they say, oh, yeah,
Speaker 4: who's sin cause him to be blind? And it was
Speaker 4: Jesus saying, no, it is. Of course, it can be
Speaker 4: sin sometimes the consequence of sin, but it's not always right,
Speaker 4: and to just know that God's heart is to heal
Speaker 4: and God's heart is to revive and restore, but we
Speaker 4: need to be willing to invite him into that space.
Speaker 4: And I think you beautifully said spiritual maturity.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: We all want to grow in our faith.
Speaker 4: What if it means that in like, I can grow
Speaker 4: in my faith, and I can grow as a person,
Speaker 4: and I can become more like Jesus by learning to
Speaker 4: ask for help, by learning to access the tools that
Speaker 4: I need that only a professional can. I think you
Speaker 4: were blessed to be able to find the tools yourself
Speaker 4: in what you just shared and said, yeah, I found it.
Speaker 4: I was able to use it, and I was blessed.
Speaker 4: And in a couple of days I experienced that. But
Speaker 4: a lot of us, including myself, I could not find
Speaker 4: that in my dark days.
Speaker 3: I struggled with depression as well, and so I went
Speaker 3: for therapy.
Speaker 4: I went to a secular therapist, I went to a
Speaker 4: faith based therapist, and they were both blessed me because
Speaker 4: it was using the right tools.
Speaker 2: Right, That's so true, because see that's what we see
Speaker 2: all through the scripture, right, Like it's about the tools
Speaker 2: that you need. Like, for example, if I'm hungry, just
Speaker 2: coming and telling me that, Hey, you know what, you
Speaker 2: just have to have faith. You should sit and pray,
Speaker 2: fast and pray. I'm already fast thing, dude, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean? Like I'm what I need is physical food,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean? Like, like you said about Elijah,
Speaker 2: I always go back to this. If somebody looked at
Speaker 2: Elijah at that point, they would have called him the
Speaker 2: laziest goes on earth. This guy's eating and sleeping, eating
Speaker 2: and sleeping, but they don't know what is happening. You know,
Speaker 2: sometimes we judge ourselves or we judge somebody else looking
Speaker 2: at the season when and like, how can you just
Speaker 2: eat and sleep? How can you be lazy? How can
Speaker 2: you not be more intentional about taking a step? But
Speaker 2: understand the pain that you're in is something that's real,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean? Like, what is your take
Speaker 2: on helping people understand you talk about the neurological part
Speaker 2: or it's that neuroscience part of it. I can you
Speaker 2: help us understand that part because a lot of people
Speaker 2: think it's just in your mind, you know, just get
Speaker 2: out of it, get out of your bed, Like I mean,
Speaker 2: if I could, I would, you know, what I mean. So,
Speaker 2: can you talk a little bit about that.
Speaker 3: Absolutely.
Speaker 4: So, the brain is one of the most incredible machines
Speaker 4: that we have ever come across, right, And God is
Speaker 4: such a creative.
Speaker 3: Intelligent, incredible God in the way that he built our brain.
Speaker 4: It's made up of billions of cells, billions of neurons,
Speaker 4: and these neurons are constantly talking to each other through
Speaker 4: these chemicals called neurotransmitters.
Speaker 3: Okay, so you.
Speaker 4: Have all these different parts of the brain being able
Speaker 4: to communicate effectively with each other. But when you are
Speaker 4: going through depression, those communication systems stop working. They're not
Speaker 4: really communicating to each other properly. And so some of
Speaker 4: those neurotransmitters can be serotonin.
Speaker 3: I think a lot of us have heard about serotonin.
Speaker 4: It's the one that boosts your mood, it helps you
Speaker 4: sleep better, it helps you feel good that instantly drops.
Speaker 4: And then there's dopamine. A lot of us know about
Speaker 4: dopamine as well. We're all looking for dopamine hits, right,
Speaker 4: That's why we're doom scrolling because it gives us that
Speaker 4: dopamine hit. Dopamine is the neurotransmitter that helps with motivation
Speaker 4: and drive and it's the thing that keeps us interested
Speaker 4: in doing certain hobbies or tasks. And the third one
Speaker 4: is not epinephrin, which again is responsible for giving us
Speaker 4: energy and motivation and helping us do things. You know,
Speaker 4: really well, just imagine that all these levels in your
Speaker 4: brain are imbalanced, telling someone just get out of it
Speaker 4: on your own, or just you know, put all your strength,
Speaker 4: and you know what is that if you just will
Speaker 4: yourself to get better, you will get better.
Speaker 3: And this is all in your head is.
Speaker 4: Inaccurate because depression shows up on brain scans.
Speaker 3: The brain of somebody who's.
Speaker 4: Going through depression looks very different from.
Speaker 3: The brain of someone who.
Speaker 4: Is not, because those chemical levels itself are imbalanced.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 4: The other thing is we have a particular part of
Speaker 4: the brain called the amygdala, which is responsible for emotional regulation,
Speaker 4: so that one kind of goes into hyper alert mode,
Speaker 4: so it starts becoming hyper sensitive to all of the
Speaker 4: things that would typically not trigger us. So, for example,
Speaker 4: because the amygdala is not working properly, we tend to
Speaker 4: get fixated more on the problems or things that are
Speaker 4: not going well, which is why when someone is depressed,
Speaker 4: they're constantly thinking negatively. It's because the amygdala is not
Speaker 4: able to communicate well with the other parts of the
Speaker 4: brain and it is not really working to its full capacity.
Speaker 4: And then there is something known as the prefantle contex,
Speaker 4: which is the thinking part of our brain, supposed to
Speaker 4: make decisions, supposed to motivate us to do our tasks,
Speaker 4: which is why a lot of like one of the
Speaker 4: things that when I struggled with depression was indecisiveness.
Speaker 3: I just couldn't make the most.
Speaker 4: Simplest of decisions, and the smallest of tasks like getting
Speaker 4: out of bed or I don't know, taking a shower
Speaker 4: was so difficult. Right, it's because all of these different
Speaker 4: parts of the brain are imbalanced and the chemicals that
Speaker 4: are supposed to be messengers are not working properly right,
Speaker 4: and so quite literally, on a on a like neurological level,
Speaker 4: there are evidences of something not working and the only
Speaker 4: way to change that is by actively strengthening certain parts
Speaker 4: of the brain through tools therapeutic you know, exercises, or
Speaker 4: through medication, right, because you are you have to restore
Speaker 4: that chemical balance in the brain. So that really is
Speaker 4: what happens with depression or anxiety or any of the
Speaker 4: mental illnesses.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so for some of you, maybe something brand new
Speaker 2: because you're just saying like, oh, all I thought it
Speaker 2: was is in the mind, But then you're actually talking
Speaker 2: about what is happening behind it, the signs behind it,
Speaker 2: and you may say, well, it's not in the scripture. Well,
Speaker 2: a lot of things were written based on the understanding
Speaker 2: that people had back in the day. Now what I mean, Like,
Speaker 2: for example, when this scripture says God made to big
Speaker 2: lights sun and the moon, you know, it doesn't talk
Speaker 2: about Jupiter or Mars. It doesn't mean that Jupiter or
Speaker 2: Mars were not created by God. It's because based on
Speaker 2: the understanding that people had back then, the scripture was
Speaker 2: written in that sense, you know, so that people can follow.
Speaker 2: Like I think there's a fun fact that I came
Speaker 2: across ones that the Bible says in the Book of Revelations.
Speaker 2: I think in the last days the sun will be
Speaker 2: more bright or something on those lines, so which could
Speaker 2: actually be a reflection of global warming for example, So
Speaker 2: people never knew about global warming back then, but then
Speaker 2: the scripture is talking about something in line with that,
Speaker 2: you know, based on what people could understand back then.
Speaker 2: So on a similar note, right, now people look at
Speaker 2: something and say, hey, this is not in the scripture,
Speaker 2: but this is something written in the world, like for example,
Speaker 2: things like in Philippians. It's says, so I think of
Speaker 2: these things that are good, but now we are true
Speaker 2: saying about how some people cannot even think because they're
Speaker 2: going through those things. So I really pray that you know,
Speaker 2: people get to understand that, you know, this is something
Speaker 2: really serious and we need to take the right steps.
Speaker 2: So can you talk a little bit about the tools
Speaker 2: of therapy or the faith based therapy.
Speaker 4: Of course, so there are lots of different approaches and
Speaker 4: there are lots of different therapy techniques, but one of
Speaker 4: my favorite therapy techniques is something known as cognitive behavior therapy,
Speaker 4: also in as CBT. So CBT basically identifies the unhelpful
Speaker 4: thoughts because actually everything begins at the thought level. All
Speaker 4: of us notice our feelings, right, I'm angry, I'm sad,
Speaker 4: I'm upset, I'm scared, But the feeling actually follows the thought. Yes,
Speaker 4: there was always a thought that you know is the root,
Speaker 4: and then there's the feeling, and based on that feeling,
Speaker 4: we tend to respond or react to the situation.
Speaker 3: So how faith based therapy integrates.
Speaker 4: I mean, how faith based therapy uses something like CBT
Speaker 4: would be to be able to identify those unhelpful thoughts,
Speaker 4: that's what I do with my clients, and then to
Speaker 4: be able to counter it with scripture. Right, because just
Speaker 4: to add here, you mentioned certain things are not really
Speaker 4: mentioned in the Bible, right, I mean to just add
Speaker 4: to that and to say that science is only.
Speaker 3: Now catching up to scripture. Right.
Speaker 4: Thank God for science, and thank God for these studies
Speaker 4: and research which is helping us to understand how incredible
Speaker 4: God is in the way that he's built at and
Speaker 4: only now are we learning how some of those things
Speaker 4: actually work. Right, when when we see in the Book
Speaker 4: of Romans do not be conformed to the patterns of
Speaker 4: this world, but be renewed by the transfer, you know,
Speaker 4: but be transformed by the.
Speaker 3: Renewing of your mind.
Speaker 4: God knew that it was neuroplasticity, but now science has
Speaker 4: finally told, oh, by the way, here's this thing called neuroplasticity,
Speaker 4: and this is how it works. Right, And so really
Speaker 4: science is only now catching up, yeah, with scripture. And
Speaker 4: so that really is the approach I have to everything
Speaker 4: that there is the tool. But then the foundation of.
Speaker 3: It is scripture, It's the word of God.
Speaker 4: So sometimes I take references from different stories of the
Speaker 4: Bible or different incidents in the Bible to sort.
Speaker 3: Of speak to speak into a particular situation.
Speaker 4: And really it that that balance is so important, right,
Speaker 4: because sometimes I will have Christian clients coming in and
Speaker 4: sort of saying, yeah, I'm feeling like really low, and
Speaker 4: I think it's it's the attack of the enemy, and
Speaker 4: I'm sure the enemy is at work, and I just
Speaker 4: need to do this and that, and I need to
Speaker 4: go and fast for five days and six days and
Speaker 4: all of that is great, But I think as Christians
Speaker 4: we tend to over spiritualize a little bit. So there
Speaker 4: is a balance between knowing what is, you know, the
Speaker 4: attack of the enemy, and of course engaging in the
Speaker 4: spiritual weapons that God has given us and knowing how
Speaker 4: to address this from a very practical cognitive standpoint, and
Speaker 4: that discernment we cannot do on our own. It helps
Speaker 4: when there is a neutral person in that space, like
Speaker 4: a therapist, like a professional, because they are unbiased. They
Speaker 4: don't know you, they don't know anything else, so they're
Speaker 4: able to see your situation from a very neutral perspective
Speaker 4: and give you input that is very helpful.
Speaker 3: Right, That really is what mentoring is. Right.
Speaker 4: Why do we go to our mentors in our church
Speaker 4: spaces is because they give us that wisdom and that
Speaker 4: different perspective.
Speaker 3: So, yeah, that really is.
Speaker 4: A little bit about how therapy works on a practical level.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so needed, and especially like the way you
Speaker 2: shared about knowing the difference between understanding what's the spiritual
Speaker 2: warfare and what actually requires of you to take a step, Yes,
Speaker 2: because if you're not doing that, like, for example, if
Speaker 2: I'm thinking, oh, I have headache and I just take
Speaker 2: a painkiller like paracetamol, what if some I mean, I
Speaker 2: want to say it in a negative way, but what
Speaker 2: if it was actually a tumor for example? Right, So
Speaker 2: if you're thinking like oh, I just want to pray
Speaker 2: this away or I just think that it should go away.
Speaker 2: But certain things you need to be intentional about taking
Speaker 2: those steps, right like you. I like the way you
Speaker 2: mentioned that sometimes you take decisions based on what you know,
Speaker 2: but when somebody else comes into the scene, they give
Speaker 2: you clarity of things that you may not have thought about.
Speaker 2: Like I think there was a moment where a Hosis
Speaker 2: was trying to deal with the people, and his father
Speaker 2: in law had to come and give him a different
Speaker 2: idea or perspective that he didn't think about before. So
Speaker 2: sometimes it's all about, you know, being in that place.
Speaker 2: Like again, it goes back to the place of humility,
Speaker 2: saying God, you know what I am willing to be
Speaker 2: like an open book. I always have that approach of life.
Speaker 2: So at the same time, you allow God to guide
Speaker 2: you and tell you if something is not of him
Speaker 2: as well. When you talk about various things that people
Speaker 2: deal with, right, like we let's focus on a holistic
Speaker 2: approach because I want people to go to your podcast
Speaker 2: and check the specifics that they may be dealing with. Guys,
Speaker 2: I want you to do it after this episode, not now. Okay,
Speaker 2: So the thing is, like, on a holistic approach, what
Speaker 2: are some practical tools that people can use to have
Speaker 2: a better mental health?
Speaker 4: Given that we're talking about it from a very general
Speaker 4: point of view, I think the simplest thing that we
Speaker 4: can do is to just be aware. Sometimes a lot
Speaker 4: of us don't heal or overcome certain things because we're
Speaker 4: not ready to deal with it. And how can you
Speaker 4: deal with something that you're not aware of, right, And
Speaker 4: so the first thing is to be able to bring
Speaker 4: it to awareness, to check in with yourself and say
Speaker 4: and ask what.
Speaker 3: Am I feeling? What am I thinking right now? And
Speaker 3: to be able to name that. You know, am I
Speaker 3: feeling anxious?
Speaker 4: Or am I feeling confused or stressed or overwhelmed or
Speaker 4: helpless or angry or hostile or jealous? The minute you
Speaker 4: label it. The minute you label it, you're externalizing it.
Speaker 4: It's not something that's you know, it's not something that's
Speaker 4: intrinsic to you, but it is something that's external.
Speaker 3: And so you're dealing.
Speaker 4: With the problem once you're aware, to be able to
Speaker 4: ask what is in your control and what is out
Speaker 4: of your control in that situation, and then to be
Speaker 4: able to move into what is the tool that I
Speaker 4: need to use in that particular setting. Right, Because we're
Speaker 4: speaking from a very general point of view, I think
Speaker 4: the easiest skill that we can all access is emotional regulation.
Speaker 4: A lot of us suggests like, oh, I wish I
Speaker 4: reacted better in that situation, or sometimes I feel like
Speaker 4: my emotions get the best of me, or I'm not
Speaker 4: able to understand what I'm feeling. So emotional regulation works
Speaker 4: on the fact that you take the time to label
Speaker 4: and understand what you're feeling and then to be able
Speaker 4: to respond to it. Sorry, it works on labeling and
Speaker 4: understanding what you're feeling and then being curious about where
Speaker 4: that feeling is coming from, right, what is the thought
Speaker 4: underlying that feeling, and to be able to counter that thought,
Speaker 4: because really, for every thought and every struggle.
Speaker 3: That we have, there is a verse to counter it.
Speaker 4: And so I think the most simplest thing would be
Speaker 4: take a journal, write down these thoughts that are causing
Speaker 4: these feelings and find a verse to counter it, challenge it,
Speaker 4: or cancel it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so good. That's so good because actually, when
Speaker 2: you were sharing this, I was reminded, like I mentioned
Speaker 2: about Larry Krab's the counseling thing, right, like, because I've
Speaker 2: done like a course on cowsling many years ago. So
Speaker 2: that's how I was able to concert myself. You're asking
Speaker 2: how I found that thing, because for me, that's how
Speaker 2: over time what happened to me was like I was,
Speaker 2: the steps followed are very similar. Like even if it's
Speaker 2: not a mental health issue, even if it's a behavioral
Speaker 2: issue or something, what we do is like seven stages.
Speaker 2: Like first this, like you said, it starts with a thought, right,
Speaker 2: like we looking at the behavior and we are wondering
Speaker 2: why this behavior, and then we study the words that
Speaker 2: come out of your mouth. Then you see it's because
Speaker 2: of the thoughts, and the thoughts come down to checking
Speaker 2: what is the root foundation thing, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Like for example, let me give it myself as an example. Right,
Speaker 2: ever since I was young, I was always put down
Speaker 2: for especially the color of my skin, which gave me
Speaker 2: a big insecurity issue. So on the outside, you know,
Speaker 2: even Manuel knows this. But you'll ask me to smile,
Speaker 2: I'll never smile in my teets, okay, And I'm like,
Speaker 2: I'm not able to do it like behavior, and then
Speaker 2: I tell them like no, I don't look good. I
Speaker 2: don't want to do this, And then comes to the
Speaker 2: thought level, it's like, oh, I'm not looking fine, and
Speaker 2: then the root issue is nothing to do with smiling.
Speaker 2: It had something to do with the deep issue of
Speaker 2: you know, insecurity that was because of what happened. Then
Speaker 2: I have to deal with the like changing Like you're
Speaker 2: talking about changing the mind, right, you change? What is
Speaker 2: the scripture talking about it? Like your fearfully and wonderfully made.
Speaker 2: You're made in the image of God. You're a masterpiece
Speaker 2: of God God's workmanship. So you change your innermost tape recorder,
Speaker 2: so to speak, you know, in your mind, and then
Speaker 2: what happens You start thinking according to that because the
Speaker 2: Bible says has some man think it's so a see,
Speaker 2: So your mind starts thinking in that way, your words
Speaker 2: starts changing accordingly, and then your behavior will change. You
Speaker 2: know what I mean. It's like, so that's a very
Speaker 2: similar thing that I keep doing and I keep telling
Speaker 2: people as well. So what you shared is the same thing,
Speaker 2: but we follow this pattern so that we can change
Speaker 2: our mind. And the other thing you spoke about writing
Speaker 2: as well, right, Like, there's so much that you can
Speaker 2: have in your mind, but when you put it out there,
Speaker 2: when you write, it can be in the form of writing.
Speaker 2: Writing is one great thing. Or if you don't like writing,
Speaker 2: you can speak it out, like you have so many
Speaker 2: places where you can have like a on online audio
Speaker 2: journal or something like that. You can speak it out
Speaker 2: or write or express. One of the things that helped me,
Speaker 2: especially dealing with insecurity, is you know, I love taking
Speaker 2: photos of myself photos of video shoots. So what happened
Speaker 2: is sometimes for me, one of my quote unquote therapy
Speaker 2: tools would be to take photo shoots a video shoots.
Speaker 2: So when I take these high quality photos and video,
Speaker 2: sometimes I fall in love with myself, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean. It's like, oh my gosh, like I look
Speaker 2: like this model or I look good. You know, when
Speaker 2: that actually helped me in how I deal with myself,
Speaker 2: like in this sense, like how I see myself, you know,
Speaker 2: when I'm so on a similar note, like finding your
Speaker 2: own unique tools that like for example, maybe your therapist guys,
Speaker 2: I challenge you to check it up, can give you
Speaker 2: what works for you and that unique thing that you
Speaker 2: can have and also follow certain things which are very practical,
Speaker 2: like you know, going back to this of how God
Speaker 2: gave Elijah not an instruction of fast and pray for
Speaker 2: five days, but rather just eat and drink and sleep,
Speaker 2: you know, sometimes take care of your physical health. You know,
Speaker 2: sometimes I remember and I'm just too tired. I just
Speaker 2: I go for swimming every day. So the minute I
Speaker 2: go and swim, I don't know, Like even this morning,
Speaker 2: I was so clouded with so many things when swam
Speaker 2: for one hour I'm supposed to be more tired, but
Speaker 2: then coming back, I'm so much better, brighter. So what
Speaker 2: I'm saying is taking care of your physical body, taking
Speaker 2: care of your health, all of those things actually help
Speaker 2: you have a holistic mental health as well. So just
Speaker 2: handing on to order, you said, yeah, but I really
Speaker 2: hope guys, these things help you in your you know,
Speaker 2: overall mental health. I mean, so that you are able
Speaker 2: to do that better.
Speaker 4: But just to add one more thing, sure, just to
Speaker 4: add one more thing. Self compassion is so underrated, right,
Speaker 4: And I think when you are sharing about how you
Speaker 4: look at pictures of yourself and you use like you
Speaker 4: were actually changing the narrative in your head. Right, you
Speaker 4: were finding new words to talk about the way you
Speaker 4: look or you appear in so the color of your skin,
Speaker 4: and you spoke with the language of love.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 4: Sometimes we don't speak to ourselves kindly because we're so
Speaker 4: terrified of becoming proud. To the point, I don't think
Speaker 4: pride is the issue. I think self condemnation is the issue.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 4: That inner critic is left unchecked in most of us,
Speaker 4: and I think especially among Christians, the inner critic is
Speaker 4: extra loud because we say but we need that regulative
Speaker 4: voice to make sure we're on the right path and
Speaker 4: the right track, and we're growing correctly, and we're doing
Speaker 4: all the things that are you know, right in the
Speaker 4: eyes of God. But if you are experiencing condemnation, it's
Speaker 4: not of God. And so self compassion, what does that mean.
Speaker 4: It is to speak kindly to yourself. It is to
Speaker 4: find one thing to appreciate about yourself at the end
Speaker 4: of the day. Something I tell on a very practical
Speaker 4: level to my clients is take us post it or
Speaker 4: a sticky note, write something nice about yourself. Put it
Speaker 4: on your mirror, so that when you're brushing your teeth
Speaker 4: it's something that you just look at. You know, we
Speaker 4: consume so much content. What if we consume these words
Speaker 4: of love that we have to speak to ourselves. And
Speaker 4: God invites us to love ourselves, isn't it. It is
Speaker 4: not pride, it is not arrogance.
Speaker 2: But it's easier to be kind to a million people
Speaker 2: than to ourselves.
Speaker 3: Always.
Speaker 4: Always, yeah, that is not that's really not how God
Speaker 4: wants us to treat ourselves.
Speaker 2: So yeah, that's that's one of the things. What I
Speaker 2: did was I put frames of myself with the high
Speaker 2: quality photos. I frame them with some of them with
Speaker 2: the Bible verse or something. So what happens? I keep
Speaker 2: them in the room, so I keep looking at I'm like, Okay,
Speaker 2: this is what the scripture says, this is who I am,
Speaker 2: or you know, things like that. So this is something
Speaker 2: that worked for me. I'm not saying it. Everything will
Speaker 2: work the same way for each person. And that's why
Speaker 2: taking the right steps or maybe the help of a
Speaker 2: counselor or a therapist will help in that regard. So
Speaker 2: what is your word for the Body of Christ or
Speaker 2: how churches can you know, deal with this whole issue
Speaker 2: in the right way.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I really like my heart's desire is that the
Speaker 4: church and mental health professionals work collaboratively, right, I think there.
Speaker 3: Is early such a I don't know.
Speaker 4: There sometimes seems to be points of friction between the
Speaker 4: church and mental health professionals because mental health professionals are
Speaker 4: trying to pull people away from over spiritualizing, and pastors
Speaker 4: and church leaders are worried that if they send their
Speaker 4: flock to, you know, a therapist, it probably is showing
Speaker 4: that they are not qualified enough to deal with their
Speaker 4: you know, deal with their people and deal with their congregation,
Speaker 4: and so it really I think there's such a problematic
Speaker 4: relationship between these two areas when actually, if we can
Speaker 4: work together, you know what wonders, right, we can really
Speaker 4: do so much for God's kingdom, and that is God's
Speaker 4: heart is for us to be able to work together
Speaker 4: as one body, right.
Speaker 3: And so.
Speaker 4: One thing I would really say is for the church,
Speaker 4: and I think I see that happening a lot in
Speaker 4: India yea, where church spaces are posting workshops or mental
Speaker 4: health issues or bringing awareness on topics that are not
Speaker 4: discussed like suicide or anxiety or burnout or whatever that
Speaker 4: might be the things that we just tend to listen
Speaker 4: to sermons on. You know, they are inviting professionals and saying, hey, let's.
Speaker 3: Talk about this together.
Speaker 4: And so the church is opening up spaces for mental
Speaker 4: health to be discussed and so it's no longer one
Speaker 4: of those things that you have to deal with on
Speaker 4: your own, but it's out in the open.
Speaker 3: That would be Number one.
Speaker 4: Second is it's incredible to see a lot of pastors
Speaker 4: and church leaders refer their members of the church, refer
Speaker 4: members of the church to therapists and say, hey, this is.
Speaker 3: Where we are going to back you up in.
Speaker 4: Your journey of healing, but I think you should seek
Speaker 4: professional help, right, And I think it's supposed to be
Speaker 4: a harmonious relationship.
Speaker 2: But I really like that when you said that there
Speaker 2: are churches that are opening up, and I really want
Speaker 2: that to be the case, like in the sense, not
Speaker 2: just about this aspect, but you know, I think we
Speaker 2: were talking about this before. I says and as well,
Speaker 2: that we need that unity in the Body of Christ.
Speaker 2: You know, the Scripture talks about, of course the five
Speaker 2: fold ministry you see, you know, the apostles, profits, evangelists, teachers,
Speaker 2: and masters, but there are other gifts as well, surveying, counseling,
Speaker 2: And I think the most effective way to build a
Speaker 2: Body of Christ together, build the Kingdom of God together,
Speaker 2: is to understand, like you know what, I'm not building
Speaker 2: my church, I'm building the Kingdom of God. So if
Speaker 2: I'm a pastor, I know what I can do, Like
Speaker 2: a pastor has his limitations and a therapist knows their
Speaker 2: part to play. So that's how we can actually build
Speaker 2: a kingdom together. You know, That's been my heart as well,
Speaker 2: Like you know, even as a podcast, like we're doing
Speaker 2: this collaboration. My heart is somebody who's watching this, you know,
Speaker 2: maybe they came to know about you through my podcast.
Speaker 2: So they should be in a place where they're like, oh,
Speaker 2: I am having these challenges and they should come to
Speaker 2: your podcast and somebody who's checking this out through you,
Speaker 2: you know, when you share this around, they should be like, Okay,
Speaker 2: there's some insights that I'll be blessed with and they
Speaker 2: need to check mine. So it should be a place
Speaker 2: where there's no competition or insecurity, like oh, it's my crowd,
Speaker 2: your crowd. No. I really pray that the Body of
Speaker 2: Christ comes to that unity where they understand, like like
Speaker 2: you said, you know, we like there are those who
Speaker 2: are happy that they're taking therapy and things like that.
Speaker 2: So let's pray that this culture builds up, especially in
Speaker 2: the nation of India, that people are okay to understand, Okay,
Speaker 2: this is my role to play, this is the therapist,
Speaker 2: therapist's role to play, and then there will be that
Speaker 2: unity that actually brings in the deliverance that is required.
Speaker 2: Because I'll be honest with you, right. For example, what
Speaker 2: I've seen is sometimes I have seen quote unquote pastors
Speaker 2: take sessions on how to deal with burnouts, how to
Speaker 2: deal with stress example, And I still remember this person.
Speaker 2: I'm not putting anybody down, but I remember the session
Speaker 2: on something on those lines, and he was giving very
Speaker 2: basic idea like you know, you should trust God more.
Speaker 2: And I was thinking, I mean, I'm not saying anything
Speaker 2: against trusting God, but what I'm saying is, this person
Speaker 2: has no idea what is the actual level of stress
Speaker 2: or what is happening in the corporate sector for the
Speaker 2: people he was addressed. You know what I mean, Like,
Speaker 2: for example, when I talk on the same topic, I
Speaker 2: know what it means because I'm working. I'm an aerospace engineer, right,
Speaker 2: so I know what happens in the corporate sector. I
Speaker 2: know what it means to like for example, when there's
Speaker 2: a layoff. The simple example that you get from pastors.
Speaker 2: I'm not putting everyone out. I'm just saying from a
Speaker 2: lot of ministry leaders is oh, just trust God, pray.
Speaker 2: God will leave you a job. But then what emotional
Speaker 2: journey you go through? You know, it affects your you
Speaker 2: question yourself, your word, it affects you. They just say like, oh,
Speaker 2: you're not praying enough. That's so you can't get a job.
Speaker 2: You know, so all of these things, well, how the
Speaker 2: priactical journey looks like. So when I deal with the
Speaker 2: same topic recently, I released the video on you know, layoffs,
Speaker 2: how to deal with layoffs. But from my perspective of
Speaker 2: not a journey with God, you know, it makes a difference.
Speaker 2: So what I'm trying to tell people is like, we're
Speaker 2: not putting somebody down. You're not saying a pastor or
Speaker 2: a leader, We're not putting somebody down. But what you're
Speaker 2: saying is everyone should know their role and their capability
Speaker 2: and understand where they're coming from. And then within that space,
Speaker 2: when you operate and you allow somebody else to operate
Speaker 2: in the space that they're designed to, that's when the
Speaker 2: body of Christ can be edified. So I really want
Speaker 2: that to be the case. So a little bit of
Speaker 2: fun at this point of time. Now, if you could
Speaker 2: counsel somebody in the Bible, who would that be?
Speaker 3: I think I can really to Moses a lot.
Speaker 4: So maybe Moses he struggled with so much self doubt, right,
Speaker 4: and he was so quick to discount himself when God
Speaker 4: called him.
Speaker 3: Saying, no, God, but I have a stutter, No, but
Speaker 3: I have this no but I'm not capable.
Speaker 4: But knowing his entire life, I think when we know
Speaker 4: the whole story and the whole timeline, we can say, yeah,
Speaker 4: of course Moses was an incredible leader, but he went
Speaker 4: through some very real struggles, right. There was a lot
Speaker 4: of self doubt, and I think, like a lot of
Speaker 4: leaders in the church, he had quite a lonely journey
Speaker 4: in that he was a leader. Of course, he had
Speaker 4: Aaron and Miriam, but at the end of the day,
Speaker 4: there were many things that many decisions he had to
Speaker 4: take alone, right, And so I think I would be
Speaker 4: very happy to be his therapist and to encourage him
Speaker 4: and to invite him to restructure some of those unhelpful
Speaker 4: thoughts of self doubt and anxiety, or even those moments
Speaker 4: when he got angry and upset.
Speaker 3: Teach him to regulate that anger a little bit.
Speaker 2: That's nice, That's nice.
Speaker 4: I would actually take David as the most excellent example
Speaker 4: of someone who just journaled very vulnerably and was very real.
Speaker 4: He did not filter. You know, my God, why have
Speaker 4: you forsaken me? I'm in anguished. My pillow is wet
Speaker 4: with tears. I am not able to eat, I'm not
Speaker 4: able to sleep.
Speaker 3: He did not.
Speaker 4: Hold back, right, and those were his prayers and God
Speaker 4: loved those prayers because God wants all of us, and
Speaker 4: he wants us to be vulnerable and come as we are.
Speaker 3: And we see.
Speaker 4: David an incredible, you know, king and a man with
Speaker 4: so much power, being so real and so broken and
Speaker 4: so weak in the presence of God because he knew
Speaker 4: that God will meet him where he's at. And so
Speaker 4: I would probably love to have sat with him while
Speaker 4: he journaled, trying to understand what his thought process were.
Speaker 2: That's good, that's good. I really love that. Yeah, we
Speaker 2: need to be like open without any filters before God,
Speaker 2: and that makes a huge difference. Our next question is
Speaker 2: if Joe walked into the room as a counselor of
Speaker 2: what would be your first question of what would you
Speaker 2: just say to him?
Speaker 4: I would give Joe a hug, you know, because he,
Speaker 4: I mean, what resilience, what resilience that stems from having
Speaker 4: such faith in God. And I think he's an excellent
Speaker 4: example of you know, not looking inward, but he was
Speaker 4: so fixed on God and just relied on God throughout.
Speaker 4: So I would really, you know, remind him that that
Speaker 4: is his strength because he's feeling like everything, he's lost everything,
Speaker 4: and he's also maybe blaming himself.
Speaker 3: So I would probably say.
Speaker 4: No, do the things that you did before, which was
Speaker 4: call on God and trust in him and fix on
Speaker 4: who God.
Speaker 3: Fix your eyes on who God is, and not fix
Speaker 3: your eyes on who you are.
Speaker 4: Right, he did not focus or allow his circumstances to
Speaker 4: determine his worship or.
Speaker 3: The way he saw God.
Speaker 4: But he really he allowed the way he saw God
Speaker 4: to determine how he approached to circumstances.
Speaker 3: So, yeah, that's so beautiful.
Speaker 2: Allot of the way he started with, like I want
Speaker 2: to give him a hug. Yeah, sometimes guys just giving
Speaker 2: a hug and a smile can go a long way.
Speaker 2: So that is so needed. A last fun question because
Speaker 2: we have Scooby Doo here, So if you were to
Speaker 2: give any advice to the Scooby Doo gang, you're seeing
Speaker 2: them running around at the same time they team up,
Speaker 2: but on a counseling perspective, what would you give them,
Speaker 2: like when they're scared, when they're facing struggles like Scooby
Speaker 2: is like, So when Scooby that's that, what are you
Speaker 2: going to do?
Speaker 3: Okay, So I'm going to get super technical here.
Speaker 4: I think Shaggy right, yes, Scooby, Yeah, I think Shaggy.
Speaker 3: And Scooby have a very co dependent relationship.
Speaker 4: I think it can be a little unhealthy sometimes, So
Speaker 4: maybe they need to have a healthy balance in their
Speaker 4: friendship and maybe raw some boundaries and not depend on
Speaker 4: each other so much for validation and for their plans.
Speaker 4: Like I think Shaggy would always follow Scooby do.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so.
Speaker 4: Sorry, I think Shaggy would always follow Scooby around, And
Speaker 4: so I would say Shaggy have a mind of your own.
Speaker 4: And but yeah, that's just a very playful take on yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's but all of these even though they're fun takes,
Speaker 2: there are practical things Shanning right, like learning to set boundaries,
Speaker 2: and like I was talking to you earlier that I
Speaker 2: call my Doggie as my sister. So for me, I'm
Speaker 2: so excited I have a little sister. But like, in
Speaker 2: a similar note, like we know where to set boundaries
Speaker 2: and so many things that we can learn and learn
Speaker 2: and take away. This is something I've never seen anyone
Speaker 2: talk about it, you know, Shaggy and Scooby, you guys,
Speaker 2: but it's pretty cool, pretty cool. So where can people
Speaker 2: find your podcast.
Speaker 3: On YouTube and on Spotify.
Speaker 2: And how can people stay in touch with you?
Speaker 3: Yeah, they can drop me an email.
Speaker 4: Maybe we can tag the email lightly at the bottom
Speaker 4: or even yeah, definitely connect with me on Instagram.
Speaker 2: Sounds good. So we'll come up to almost the end
Speaker 2: of the session. But what I usually do at the
Speaker 2: end is I always pray for the guest and I
Speaker 2: also recommend those who are watching to also pray for you,
Speaker 2: And then I would ask you to pray for me,
Speaker 2: the podcast and the guests before there are any words
Speaker 2: you want to share about me and the podcast, your
Speaker 2: experience and whatever you know before as well.
Speaker 4: I think, I mean, it was so amazing that we
Speaker 4: got that, like while the setup was happening, that we
Speaker 4: got that time to just have that conversation, and it's
Speaker 4: it's so amazing to see how you've been in this
Speaker 4: industry for fourteen years, you've been in this space, and
Speaker 4: just your heart to be so faithful, John, I think
Speaker 4: that's to me that was so inspiring.
Speaker 3: And I think it to.
Speaker 4: Also recognize that you could not have done this on
Speaker 4: your own strength, and so just allowing God to use
Speaker 4: you and to reveal his heart through you is so inspiring,
Speaker 4: and it shows the kind of relationship you have with
Speaker 4: God and just how closely you walk with Him in
Speaker 4: that you're able to do this without hitting burnout. Right,
Speaker 4: That can only be God.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, thank.
Speaker 2: You so much. So what can we pray for you?
Speaker 4: I think it's very recently that I've recognized that the
Speaker 4: work I do is also ministry. So to start viewing
Speaker 4: the work that I do as ministry, that I will
Speaker 4: be able to bless many through faith based therapy, and
Speaker 4: that I will learn what it means to rely on
Speaker 4: God and not on my own abilities and.
Speaker 3: My own strength.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll pray for you, and then you can close
Speaker 2: with a word. Right, Lord, we come to you the
Speaker 2: same thing. We thank you for this time that you
Speaker 2: give in to us, and we thank you for this conversation,
Speaker 2: and we thank you for the way you'll lead us
Speaker 2: thus far and even through the flow through everything. And
Speaker 2: we want to pray for ny in the name of
Speaker 2: Jesus Christ, that you will fill love with your presence
Speaker 2: of God, filler with your anointing. Thank you for the
Speaker 2: way your letter thus far, and we thank you for
Speaker 2: the way you're going to lead her. You're going to
Speaker 2: open doors for her. You helped her come to that
Speaker 2: realization about what she's doing is actually a work that
Speaker 2: is to build your kingdom, that is ministry serving people. God,
Speaker 2: I want to pray that you will expand her territories,
Speaker 2: expand her reach. Lord. I see a vision like how
Speaker 2: you know, like waves just going through on new new
Speaker 2: grounds or something on those lines. I see like expansion
Speaker 2: coming over Lord. I want to speak expansion over her,
Speaker 2: that she's going to see the hand of God leading her,
Speaker 2: guiding her. And again I see your vision like you're
Speaker 2: trying to edit the videos or you're just trying to
Speaker 2: work things on. And then I see a vision of
Speaker 2: Jesus standing behind you and giving you creative ideas. Lord,
Speaker 2: I speak this over her, that God you're springing up creativity,
Speaker 2: flow and direction and purpose. And God, I pray that
Speaker 2: the Whope frequency is going to be a great channel
Speaker 2: of hope for multitudes for the Kingdom of God. Lord,
Speaker 2: we thank you for her, We bless her, and we
Speaker 2: pray that you'll continue to use her for the extension
Speaker 2: of your kingdom. In Jesus name, I pray, Amen a.
Speaker 3: Man, thank you so much, and I pray love me heavely. Father.
Speaker 4: I just want to thank you, Lord for every way
Speaker 4: in which you have called your beloved son John into
Speaker 4: this line of work, into this ministry.
Speaker 3: Into this calling.
Speaker 4: And I just want to speak a blessing over his podcast.
Speaker 4: I want to speak a blessing over his personal life
Speaker 4: and his ministry.
Speaker 3: Lord.
Speaker 4: I just thank you Lord that really he is your
Speaker 4: mouthpiece and he's your spokesperson. And I just pray that
Speaker 4: you will increase his appetite for the word, that he
Speaker 4: will be so hungry and thirsty for the word for
Speaker 4: revelations that you have to offer him in his own
Speaker 4: time with you, Lord Jesus, I pray for an increased
Speaker 4: appetite for you, Lord Jesus, for your presence, uh for
Speaker 4: your love God.
Speaker 3: And I just pray that.
Speaker 4: His words and the ideas and everything, Lord will just
Speaker 4: be an overflow of his time with you, Lord Jesus.
Speaker 3: I pray especially for him, Lord, that you will protect
Speaker 3: his mind, his heart and his work.
Speaker 4: Lord, pray that you will protect his family and his life,
Speaker 4: Lord Jesus, even as he steps into so many paces and.
Speaker 3: Releases your words.
Speaker 4: Lord, thank you Jesus that you have equipped him and
Speaker 4: you have blessed this space. And I just pray that
Speaker 4: you will continue to bless it Lord and will grow
Speaker 4: in a way that really blows him away, because it
Speaker 4: is you, and only you that can do what he's doing.
Speaker 3: Lord, Jesus, You're precious made me pray come in.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Thank you so much, guys for
Speaker 2: joining till the end. All Rainy's details are in the description.
Speaker 2: Check them out, follow her, follow her podcast, subscribe to that,
Speaker 2: and subscribe to this. Check out my book and my
Speaker 2: other books if you've not done so, and I'll see
Speaker 2: you back very soon. God bless you.
Speaker 1: You've been listening to Fuel for the Soul with John Gifta.
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Speaker 1: God bless you.
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